martin bashir. >> thank you, toure. here here. it's monday, august 12th. and amid flights of presidential fancy in iowa, the cold reality of a criminal justice system badly in need of reform. >> i have a lot of the faith still in the people of iowa. >> that moment when we all get to say, madame president to hillary rodham clinton. >> we used to be the king and the queen all put together. now we're a laughing stock. >> republicans have determined their holy grail. their number one priority. they don't want it see these folks get health care. >> that is a belate isn't lie. >> a young charismatic leader rose up. >> appeal every single word of obama care. >> talking about hope, and change. >> i'm not sure where he was born. >> he was definitely born in. >> you'll have to ask him that question. >> his name was fidel castro.

>> you go back to the original greek. politics had two parts, poly meaning many and tics meaning blood sucking parasites. that firly will describes the state of affairs in washington today. >> welcome back from a wild weekend income iowa full of sound and fury, signifying perhaps the way too early start of the 2016 presidential race. yes, the iowa caucuses are still more than 28 months away. but that isn't stopping those with an eye on the oval office descending on the hawkeye state. from the weekend social conservative summit to next month's steak fril featuring vice president joe biden, we will cast our gaze into the future just ahead. but we begin with the fierce urgency of now and two major developments in the area of

criminal justice reform. earlier today in a major repudiation of new york's controversial stop and frisk policy, a federal judge ruled the tactic violates the constitutional rights of minorities. the judge ruled that by systematically stopping innocent people mainly blacks and latinos and searching them for contraband, stop and frisk demonstrated a widespread disregard for the fourth and 14th amendments. calling it a policy of indirect racial profiling, the judge called for a federal monitor to oversee broad reforms to the programs. new york mayor michael bloomberg responded this afternoon saying the tactic is part of policing that has made new york city the poster child for crime reduction. >> this is a very dangerous decision made by a judge that i think just does not understand how policing works and what is compliant with the u.s.

constitution as determined by the supreme court. crime can come back anytime. the criminals think that they're going to get away with things. >> the good mayor said he'll appeal the ruling and at the same time as the mayor was defending his policy, the top law enforcement official in the nation was addressing another controversial policy with widespread consequences. this afternoon, attorney general eric holder announced an overhaul of federal prison policy, including ending a policy of mandatorily minimum sentences for some nonviolent drug offenses. >> too many americans go to too many prisons for far too long and for no truly good law enforcement reason. i am proud to announce today that the justice department will take a series of significant actions to recalibrate america's federal criminal justice system. we will start by fundamentally rethinking the notion of

mandatorily minimum sentences for drug related crimes. >> declaring mandatory minimums both ineffective and unsustainable, he announced the justice department will order prosecutors to omit listing quantities of illegal substances in indictments for low level drug cases. side stepping federal laws that impose strict mandatory minimums. it's one of several steps aimed at curbing overcrowding, massive taxpayer spending and gross disparities within the criminal justice system. let's get right to our panel now. with us from washington is nia-malika henderson and in los angelesing is strategist professor bob shrum, columnist for the daily beast and contributing professor at nyu. nia-malika, he said the moral cost of mass encars ration are impossible to calculate. but they do add up.

$80 billion we've he spent to incarcerate prisoners in 2010 alone, 47% of those imprisoned for drug-related crimes. and some of them actually very minor. this is a situation that has long been in need of reform, isn't it? >> indeed, and you've had civil rights activists for years talking about this problem. you can measure it in terms of those, the dollar figure, but then it's not measurable in terms of the widespread impact in terms of lost connections that people have with their family members, if a father or brother or sister is in jail, lost productivity, lost economic power that's generated or not generated. >> not to say the vicious cycle of poverty, incarceration, continuing criminalization and so it goes on. >> exactly. in some ways have you had conservatives is pick up on this idea of looking at prison

reform, as well. newt gingrich, rand paul very much wanting to see these steps taken around those mandatory minimum sentences. i think a lot of people look at this today and say this is a real move in the right direction and certainly, something that will redound to eric holder's benefit in terms of who he has been as attorney general. it counts to his legacy. >> yet, professor shrum we have this reform proposed by the attorney general. what kind of pushback are you expecting because some of these executive actions in the past, as you know, have been opposed on the ground? had. >> it will be very interesting to see republicans and how they react because they feel no need to be consistent. a lot of what he's been doing has been pioneered in states like texas and southern states. i expect they'll criticize him anyway because of the politics

of opportunityism. them problem goes back more than 40 years. nixon's war on drugs is as big a failure as his war in vietnam was. we've had an 800% increase in the number of people in jails while the country's population has gone up a little more than 200%. we have way too many people in jail, more per capita than any other country in the world. i think what the attorney general has done here is a very significant reform, and i think it's larger meaning is we're going to see the president blocked by congress in so many ways use executive action to make a lot of important changes. >> okay. nia-malika, a lot of law and orderno nouews today. in iowa, we got hear wisdom from the father of senator ted cruz. take a listen to him. >> socially some requires that government becomes your god. that's why they have to destroy

the concept of god. they have to destroy all loyalties except loyalty to the government. that's what was -- is behind homosexual marriage. >> nia-malika, were you an aware bloviating grandiosity is an inherited condition? >> senator cruz's father is a minister. in some ways that's -- ted cruz has charisma and stage presence. i think his dad is getting his time in the spotlight there and ted cruz, as well. ted cruz is very much an up and comer. people here in washington in the senate side not pleased with his sort of bull in a china shop to his job as senator. certainly folks in iowa love him. the folks who win iowa rarely go onto win the actual contests. huckabee the year in 2008. so the you know, those are real

ejan g evangelic evangelicals. they can light up a crowd there. >> professor shrum, speaking of bloviaters, we miss donald trump. he's not sure about ted cruz since he was born in canada. are we to assume he'll dispatch an expensive team of investigators in order to find mr. cruz's birth certificate? >> i don't think he'll do that. he just runs his mouth. most of the time he doesn't make a lot of sense. he makes a fool of himself and a joke of himself. what was really going on in iowa this weekend and nia is right. the fact is that republicans who win iowa generally don't go onto the nomination not since george w. bush. democrats generally do. but the reason this is starting so early is because you have a competition between people like cruz and rand paul to be the nonchristie in this race. i'm for ted cruz for the republican nomination or failing that paul.

republican friend of mine said to me this weekend if either of them wins the nomination, they'll get spanked in the general. he won't vote for them. but that's what's happening here. chris christie would have a hard time winning iowa. he's conservative but believes in governing. his opening comes in new hampshire which is what happened with romney and before that will with john mccain. >> nia, professor, thank you so much for covering all the spots. thank you. to developing newses in afternoon, james whitey bulger who spread terror around south boston for decades before disappearing for almost 20 years was convict this had afternoon on a raft of racketeering charges including his participation in the murder of 11 individuals. the gangster now faces the prospect of spending the rest of his life in prison. kristin dahlgren joins us from outside the federal courthouses in boston. we've heard victim family members, the defense attorney and now the prosecution outside the courthouse. how would you sum up responses

to today's verdict? >> well, as you can imagine, they're mixed. we heard from some of the families whose the victims' families who were -- who he was convicted of killing. they say they have at least a sense of justice today. they were pleased with the verdict. they say they've been through so much over such a long period of time waiting for this day. i talked to tom donahue whose father michael was killed now and whitey bulger convicted in that death. he said his family really is relieved but he felt badly for those families who didn't get that sense of justice. we also heard from steve davis whose sister deborah was killed and there was no finding 0en that count. he was disappointed in the verdict, said that really he can't have any closure. there's nothing, of course, that will bring his sister back. but he was very disappointed. he pointed out though that whitey would have rather been convicted of murder than been found or called a rat.

and he said in this case, that is what the public heard about whitey bulger, that he was an fbi informant. he called him a rat and said that probably hurts whitey more at this point. the defense says they are going to appeal this verdict. we heard from the u.s. attorney in this case who is said despite deplorable behavior by those that knew better, honest investigation is the reason we are here today. so after a very long wait for many families, a very long 35-day trial in which they heard from 72 witnesses we do have whitey bulger likely to spend the rest of his life in prison. we'll hear more at the sentencing hearing now scheduled for november. but he turns 84 in september. so likely he is going away for the rest of his life. >> justice belated. kristin, thank you so much. coming up, impeach the president? 'tis the season for town halls across america and in some districts, that really does mean the silly season.

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as congress continuities its five-week recess, there appears to be an ongoing contest among gop house members, a kind of republicans got talent for saying the most ridiculous and offensive things at town hall meetings. the latest features congressman blake farenthold of texas. he took a birther question at a recent town hall and rather than dismiss the questioner outright, explained if it were up to the house gop, the current president of the united states would no longer be in office. >> if we were to impeach the

president tomorrow, you could probably get the votes in the house of representatives to do it. but it would go to the senate and he wouldn't be convicted. >> now, that was a worthy first effort by mr. farenthold. a colleague from oklahoma, however, has gone one better. during a heated exchange with a woman who identified herself as a birther princess, congressman mark mullen assured her while he too couldn't do anything about the election results, he explicitly agreed with her overall thesis as to the president's birth. >> i believe what you're saying and i don't support this president whatsoever. >> but he's not a real president. >> ma'am, we lost. >> and joining us now is democratic congressman raul grahava of arizona. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon, how are you? >> i'm sorry to repeat in your presence some of these wizen, tired repetitive and racist statements but before he left d.c., mr. boehner, the speaker

of the house, sounded assured never mind the animosity before the recess, his conference would return relaxed and ready to legislate. and then we see what's going on in people's constituencies. what's your analysis? >> the analysis is that the republican majority is dysfunctional. the reason nothing is taken with the seriousness and urgency that demands whether its immigration or economic policies. >> or impeaching the president of the united states for no good reason. he didn't even give us a reason. >> no, and that's part of -- that's part of the psychology there that it's not only -- it's delusional. you go out to your constituents and instead of leading and requiring some real conversation, what do you do? you pander, you feed the fire. you make ridiculous charges. and you come back to congress carrying that baggage and that's all we do. try to -- and the unfortunate thing is that boehner is show

nothing leadership. these two colleagues are representative of kind of a fraternity house attitude. we're just going to party, go back, nothing serious and yet, everything around us and in this nationing is terribly serious right now. >> to your point, sir, a gop kong nan north carolina, patrick mchenry got an earful from one man who identified himself as 63-year-old husband who strongly supports the health care law. i want to play for you the reaction his question received. take a listen to this. >> i'd like to ask you and the republican party to answer the question, why do i not have a moral right and access to health care when you want to defund obama care which is by law and policy going to save billions of dollars over the next ten years? >> there you are. you get applause from the questioner. can you explain to our audience,

sir, why republicans want 30 million people not to benefit from the health insurance? >> i think it fits into a philosophy which is a very restrictive 1 or 2% kind of philosophy who benefits and it also fits into what they feel everything should be. privatized, minimized government role and then the collateral damage are to the poor, the vulnerable, and those that can't fend for themselves and those that haven't had the opportunity to fend for themselves. so it's a philosophy and it's a very twisted philosophy and that applause received there, we're seeing the same thing in the district. people want to note about implementation of obama care, want to note how to access it. when 27, 28% of my students are uninsured, obviously that's where we're spending our time on this is working to make sure that people are informed and know how to get on to the

insurance program. >> kong rang grijalva, thank you, sir. >> no man is an island. to that end we offer an island survival guide for the president from martha's vineyard just ahead. good job! still running in the morning? yeah. getting your vegetables every day?

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while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'. it's being referred to as a working vacation which is something of a contradiction in terms, but the white house underlined the point this morning releasing a photo from martha's vineyard of the president being briefed by national security advisor susan rice. she certainly looks like she means business. clearly island life is not all fun and games. the president did pick up his golf clubs for a second consecutive day, always looking to work on his short game. one person who never stops

working is kristen welker who joins us live from martha's vineyard. this is indeed a working vacation. can you describe for us therefore how each day is planned? does the president take briefings in the morning, take lunch and then play golf or go out with the family? how is the day structured? >> well, i think it's a little bit of both, martin. the white house always says that the office of the presidency travels with president obama wherever he goes. i think they take great pains to showcase that. they released that picture as you pointed out of president obama getting briefed by susan rice. of course, there are a number of topics he does have his eye on right now. everything from the unrest in egypt and syria, of course, the ongoing debate over his surveillance programs. today we had that big announcement built attorney general eric holder. so there are a number of issues that he's thinking about. we also know that while he's here, he's trying to figure out who the replacement will be for fed chairman ben bernanke. there's plenty of r&r, as well.

he played golf yesterday. he got a little frustrated at one point, martin, when he missed a putt. he was back out on the green again today. and i expect that throughout the week, we will see him take a few trips to get ice cream with the first daughters. and also possibly go to a bookstore. that's one of their sort of traditions when they're on martha's vineyard. i think it is a mix. but certainly the president uses this time to recharge his batteries. >> of course, kristin, we're learning that once the vacation is over, the president is going to embark on a two-day bus tour. can you just tell us about the details of that? what will that involve, where will it take him? >> we're just learning about this, martin, according to the white house. president obama is going to take a two-day bus tour next week, thursday and friday. he'll go to pennsylvania, parts of upstate new york. this is going to be a part of his larger economy tour that he has been taking which he really started several weeks ago as we have been talking about, he's been mapping out his plans to

sort of continue to boost the economy including overhauling fannie mae and freddie mac, also he's called for reducing the corporate tax rates, new investments in infrastructure and jobs. so this is going to be a part of that campaign and, of course, his larger goal is to tee up some of those fiscal fights we are expecting to come in the fall with republicans over the budget. and, of course, the debt ceiling, the president hoping to get ahead of the narrative on those two issues. >> right. do you play golf, kristin? >> unfortunately, i don't, martin. but it's a goal of mine to learn this year. >> i wish well. i'd love to play, too. maybe you and i one day could play. thank you so much, kristen welker, live from martha's vineyard. >> thanks, martin. >> stay with us. the day's "top lines" are coming up. we challenge donald trump to answer a question about his personal finances without making a birther reference. can he do it? >> well, i probably would, but

you know, i've been trying to get the president to release things and giving vast amounts of money to charity if he did. he never did. i think you're in a whole new ball game. when did you know that grandma was the one? when her sister dumped me. grandpa was my dad a good athlete? no. oh dad, you remember my friend alex? yeah. the one that had the work done... good to see you. where do we go when we die? the ground. who's your girlfriend? his name is chad. and that's where babies come from. [ male announcer ] sometimes being too transparent can be a bad thing. this looks good! [ male announcer ] but not with the oscar mayer deli fresh clear pack. it's what you see is what you get food. it's oscar mayer.

from the carnival family cruise to the donald's endless birther quest, here are today's top lines. never underestimate the fried butter. >> all republicans are unified on one thing and that's defunding, delaying, getting rid of, eliminating obama care. >> there's nothing unifying right now in the republican party much less a discussion around defunding obama care. >> there is no more important regulatory reform that we can do than to repeal every single word of obama care. >> ted cruz born in canada. is he willgible to be president of the united states. >> if he was born in canada, perhaps not.

i'm not sure where he was born. >> he was definitely born in canada. >> you have to ask him that will question. >> you all had the opportunity to get to know my father. >> a young charismatic leader rose up talking about hope and change. his name was fidel castro. >> my dad is very soft spoke. >> and socialism requires that government becomes your god. >> understated really. >> that's what is behind homosexual marriage. >> was there a birth certificate? you tell me. some people say that was not his birth certificate. >> i'm pretty convinced. >> you said pretty. >> without question he was born in the united states. >> you say you're pretty convinced. >> the nbc clinton series might likely be produced by fox television studios. do you think there then is a connection to fox news. >> i'm not interested in whether they're using an the same caterer or are drink diet coke. >> i think we've all been in positionings to be in a position that's hard to defend. >> i don't know what you're

talking about. >> the american public knows when a group of people get up in front of them and talk about things when they don't mean it. >> none of us want to live in a world where one day our grandkids ask us, what was it like to live in america when people were free. >> what do you mean? >> they don't want to vote for president obama. at least he went out and talked to them. we marginalized them. >> the republicans have to get tough and smart. >> i don't think you should underestimate is the power iowa has to attract people to the state fair of the fried butter. it is incredible. >> let's get to our panel. political editor for buzzfeed is mckay coppins here in new york and democratic strategist julius epstein joins from us washington. we should be grateful to the cruz family. given the kind of rhetoric that you're hearing, i thought 2012 was a circus. this is going to be phenomenal in 2016, isn't it? >> i mean, look, every

republican primary is entertaining to watch. also a democratic primaries. ted cruz's father is going to be a force on the campaign trail. but he reminds me in some ways of the dynamic between hillary and bill in 2008 where bill was profoundly eve as i an surrogate but also very difficult for the campaign to control and had the power to knock the campaign off message for days at a time. we'll see that in 2016. obviously there are differences. >> i never recalled president clinton saying that people were having an intellectual competition in their minds between god and government. >> i don't think they're probably on the same side of the ideological spectrum. i do think rafael cruz is going to be out front in the campaign trail in 2016. this will be a blessing and a curse. that's wonderful. he may outdo you kaine. >> will the in the long run, will rafael cruz be an asset to his son or an easy target for his opponents to alienate moderate voters?

that's what you need. they are the people you need to win a general. >> that's exactly the question. sometimes i feel like i'm watching a reality show. who wants to lose to hillary clinton in 2016. >> yes. >> and you know, the kind you have dmaents rafael cruz makes are catnip to the 20% of the public as you point out who are the closest thing we in this country to religious fundamentalists. to the 70, 80% of the other voters, this is the kinds of thing that turns people off. i think the most underreported story right now is the number of republicans who think in washington and outside of washington hog think this kind of grandstanding while very good if you're worried about a primary opponent but this kind of grandstanding is a very destructive thing to the party nationally and it tells us the most important thing is an they have not learned the lessons from the defeat in 2012. >> no, indeed. mckay, going from gradation

skafz lunacy we had the re-emergence of donald trump. are we selling mr. trump here? isn't he raising one of the great existential questions of our time, how it can any of us prove that we're actually born? >> i think you're referring to donald trump's well-known birtherism. is that your questionle? i think that one of the most interesting things about that interview was as he went back into his spiel about how nobody knows for sure if obama was born in america, the interviewer asked the question, what about ted cruz who it's been a documented fact that he was born in canada. and he said, well, perhaps he can't be president. i think that problems that donald trump is a consistent and principled birther. i think we should give him credit for that. >> you really do. julian, if this is the lunatic lineup for 2016, is it possible, i'm asking you this julian, in all seriousness, is it possible

we might to be pining for a return to 2012 because by comparison, herman kaine and michele bachmann sound rationale compared with some of these individuals. >> you keep wondering when we are going to get a sean republican party coming back into the forehere. instead much of what we saw in 2012, the utter absence of an agenda. if you ask anyone to identify what the republican agenda is, it is nothing. nothing anybody can identify, nothing anybody can certainly understand. the only thing they 150eseem to talking about is the repeal of obama care. the white house has not done a good enough job in selling obama care, the public does not want to repeal obama care. the polls are clear on that. this is a republican party that still suffers a little bit from the brain death right now. there are a lot of republican who are very worried about this who think this is the wrong direction for the party who don't like senator cruz

grandstanding but none seem to have the guts to stand up and say we need a more middle of the road course. that's a shame. we all benefit from a more vigorous two-party system. >> the republican establishment is worried about things like this. i don't think you'll talk to anyone at the rnc who says we hope ted cruz is the nominee. there are republicans they point to, marco rubio, chris christie who they think represent a more appealing across time zones candidate. and i think that will be one of the fundamental clashes within the republican party over the next couple years, which side wins. >> good luck to them for winning primaries. buzzfeed and yourself will be having drinks tonight with anthony weiner. what should we expect from this event tonight? >> when we booked this interview with anthony weiner, he was in first place. he's now dropped 15 points. >> i believe on our air, you said he had the already committed political suicide. >> i did say that last time.

that was all my fault, right? >> that's right. >> i think he's seen this massive shift in how voters think about him in new york city. he's hoping in this moment that there's a chance for him to turn that around. we'll be approaching this from the perspective of younger web savyer people. you know, obviously our readers know what sexting is. this is part of their lives, right? whereas anthony weiner's been subjected to a lot of interviews. we're going to talk to him a lot about these issues, what he hopes his family or kid might learn from these experiences and going forward what he wants to do to turn this around. >> good luck with that. mckay coppins and julian epstein, thank you both. coming up, dollars and nonsense from the right. we take a closer look at the economic benefits of reforming immigration seriously. [ dad ] so i walked into that dealer's office and you know what i walked out with?

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over the weekend, congressman steve king provide further proof that the case against immigration is not built on facts. instead, it's constructed as narrative fiction. because no matter how many independent fact checking sites put the lie to his slurs about immigrants with calf muscles the size of melons and no matter how many reports rationally argue that immigration reform cuts deficits and is good for the economy, mr. king and those of his ilk prefer to mount one unverifiable anecdote upon another in a giant work of complete and utter fiction. >> i've seen the drug smugglers. i've spent time on the border, and ridden with the patrol. i sit on the fence at night and sits in the ranch house and the patrol tell me narrative after narrative. >>en adjoining us now is victoria defrancesco sirto and

jared bernstein. both are msnbc contributors. jared, we know steve king likes to describe his fantasy of immigrants as the so contributors to the criminal economy. but isn't there clear evidence that if he really cared about the american economy, then he should support comprehensive immigration reform? >> yes, i mean, probably one of the most important documents to come out about this topic was the score of the senate immigration bill by the congressional budget office. we all know that that is the most rigorous nonpartisan analyst group probably in the country. what they found as you've shown is that the senate immigration bill by incorporating folks already here into the economy and by stabilizing what's a pretty dysfunctional system would lower the budget deficit by a little bit less than $200

billion in the first ten years and $700 billion in the next ten years. also, if you go ten years out, the cbo estimated it would increase the size of the economy, gdp by 3% in the first decade and 5% in the second decade. and that has to do with the economics of a greater labor supply which helps grow the economy as well as the kind i have business that immigrants help to generate. >> i wish mr. king was listening to you. victoria, sorry, jared. on saturday night, mr. king spoke at the family leadership summit in the iowa, and during his speech, talked about how it was divine guidance that brought at settlers of jamestown here. so jared, i have to ask you this question. why is it not divine guidance when a different people also come here looking for a better life? >> it's a great question and in a sense, there is something really, i find, quite emotional about this. we are a nation of immigrants.

we all have that in our background here. and when you think about what people go through to get to this country to integrate into our economy and then when you kind of look at the numbers that i was discussing in my first set of remarks, it's hard not to see this as a very positive development and it's why i would say the majority of people are actually quite supportive of this. it's truly a way for not only for people to get ahead but for nations like you'res to continue to grow. >> right. jared, when that cbo that you just report that you just referenced was released, there were some on the right to said essentially wait a minute, the report also said immigration reform will hurt wages. but there's actually a part two to that explanation, isn't there? one that hasn't been given. what is that, jared? >> well, first of all, there was a small decline in average wages over the first ten years. but what the cbo said was that's one of the things that happens when lots of low wage workers

come into your country. they bring down the average. this were careful to say we're not saying this hurts the wages of domestic workers. if you look in the second ten years, they actually find average wages increasing more so really, and by the way, one quick point on this and it's been underappreciated. if you think about all the folks who are working in the shadows now, they're already here. so to bring these potentially exploited workers out of the shadows is not only better for them but better for any workers already competing with them here. >> absolutely. now, i'd like to play something that congressman buck mckean said of hispanic people at a recent town hall. take a listen to this. >> probably would agree with you. there are people that think that that can't tell the difference between hispanic person and an arab person. >> now, jared, you're not and throw policies. you're an economist of high standing. but he said i think that you

would probably agree with me that to some extent hispanic people look like islamic people look like -- i mean, is this not evidence for why so many hispanic voters literally ran away from the republican party at the last election? >> well, you've been talking about that so far on the show today and it really is -- the logic here is i think both incredibly confusing and incredibly simple. at the level of just basic human understanding and the idea that if you're overtly racist, you're probably not going to do very well in national politics in an economy with our evolving demographics is one side. then there's this primary issue where you're appealing to your base. so when i hear comments like the ones we've been discussing today, it really seems like this wing of the american republican party is taking the country in a

direction that if you look at our history, you might think we have evolved past but we are devolving back towards at least in that corner. >> and jared bern steerngs thank you so much. i should apologize to viewers. victoria sought toe's link with us broke. thank you so much, jared. coming up, the tosh general takes aim how we sentence criminals as stop and frisking is dealt a severe blow. stay with us. [ male announcer ] this is george. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪

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there is just no question that he stop, question frisk has saved countless lives. we know that most of those lives saved, based on sticks have been black and hispanic young men. if murder rates over the last 11 years had been the same as the previous 11 years, more than 7300 people who are alive today

would be dead. >> that was new york mayor michael blook bloomberg this afternoon adding a hypothetical body count to his forceful defense of the stop and frisk policing tactic. his remarks came after a federal judge ruled the policy violated the constitutional rights of minorities and called for a federal monitor to oversee broad reforms. for more, we're joined by african-american studies professor jilani cobb and ari melber, co-host of the "cycle." professor cobb, given in 88% of cases, the individual who have been stopped and frisked have been let go without an arrest, without even a ticket, is it not fair to say that we've become too accepting of profiling as part of the cultural life of this country? >> that is absolutely the concern here. i think one of the most important things that judge shine lan said in her ruling was if you have so many people who

are not even being given a ticket it, brings into question the basis for which you found them suspicious in the first place. it seems very basic and plain logic, very simple because it's also very important and easily missed in this conversation. and so if you're talking about this, if we're talking about the nsa, if we're talking about the creeping ideas around civil forfeiture in the legal system, this is all around the idea of profiling someone and really denying them due process in finding an end run around due process. >> ari, mayor michael bloomberg says "stop question frisk has saved countless lives, most of them hispanic and african-american." is he right, are therefore to justify the practice? >> well, the judge said if he were right, it would not matter in the same way that as she writes coerced confessions might help you get confession buzz they're unconstitutional.

internment is considered illegal today but may add to the quantum of safety in certain neighborhoods. so number one, out of the ballpark. number two, there's a lot of evidence that you have macro economic national factors driving crime down. that, of course, connects with eric holder's work which you're reporting on. under the traditional law, there's a very high standardton search someone, the fourth amendment requires. that was lowered for emergencies where you thought you saw a gun. that was an exception essentially. what we saw in new york, this is what's important for people to understand as we digest that ruling. what we saw is that lower standard became the rule and so when that was applied, over 500,000 searches last year, majority against minorities. what we found when you actually found guns the very thing that was used to trigger the exception at a lower standard, 1.1% of these searches produced guns among african-americans higher, 1.4% among white new

yorkers who were searched far less. is it 50%? no, it's down to 1%. this is an abottom nation. >> professor cobb, the tragedy of trayvon martin's death, do you think that some of these things that we've seen with attorney general eric holder today and now with this ruling by the judge, is this perhaps in due course going to be seen as some substantive legacy for that young man's life? >> yes, i absolutely think so. i think this will be a turning point in the way we think about these issues. in the ruling today, there were three specific references, one oblique reference, the judge made reference to a hoodie saying if someone's wearing a hoodie they shouldn't automatically be suspicious. she quoted directly from that will speech that president obama gave when he talked about the zimmerman verdict. finally she made a reference to a column that will charles brogue wrote about trayvon martin. it was clear she was tracking this to events in florida and also when we saw is the speech

from eric holder, he said he was going to be more aggressive on these issues. >> this is the whole point. this is not a stop and frisk policy. it is a racial profiling policy. that's what the court held. that's what we should call it. that's why it's illegal. >> i wish we had more time. ari melber, professor, thank you. we'll be right back. because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet.

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